Tim Elliot: Hello and welcome to Lawgical, the legal podcast from the Dubai-based law firm, HPL Yamalova & Plewka, and the U.A.E.’s first legal podcast. Now today on Lawgical, this is episode 1, maybe even chapter 1, in a special series of podcasts where we’ll be covering both legal and psychological aspects of a number of very specific topics. Now, more on the topics in a moment.
First of all, just let me introduce a very special guest to Lawgical. Dr. Samaa Al Abd is an Egyptian-British Child and Adolescent Consultant Psychologist. She has been practicing medicine in the U.K. since 1985 and in Dubai since 2015. Dr. Al Abd is a Fellow at the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the U.K.
Now, we’ve really been looking forward to speaking to you and welcoming you to Lawgical, Dr. Samaa. It’s great to see you here. Thanks for joining us.
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Thank you for inviting me. It’s a great pleasure being here.
Tim Elliot: Here as ever, our resident legal eagle, Ludmila Yamalova, the Managing Partner here at the Dubai-based law firm, HPL Yamalova & Plewka. Good to see you too, Ludmila.
Ludmila Yamalova: Great to see you too and great to see Dr. Samaa. I have to tell you I have a bit goosebumps because this has been a long time coming. We’ve been wanting to invite Dr. Samaa for a very long time because we believe that there are a lot of very important issues that can be and should be addressed, particularly the interplay between legal and psychological issues that matter so much to so many people, not just in the U.A.E., but worldwide. I have known Dr. Samaa for many years and respect her tremendously and have much regard for her intelligence, but also her warmth as a person, so I’m very excited about today’s recording.
Tim Elliot: You and me both. Let’s get to it. Now, Dr. Samaa, if I may start with you, the first topic and the topic that we’d like to start with is marriage. A huge topic. Obviously, I’m hoping we’re going to be able to cover the most prominent issues that we see in the Gulf, in this region in particular arising from the institution of marriage, though I’m sure there is crossover with marriage issues wherever you’re from. I want to start very broadly with what seems like a vague question, but if you can narrow down for me on some of the more common issues that you deal with, with your clients, when it comes to marriage issues.
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Of course, lots of marriages do go well. I have to mention that. Since we are talking about issues, it implies negative things in the marriage, and one of them is marital discord, a couple not getting on with each other, and this can be in a mild way or a severe way. Other issues are related to the children who might be involved in the marital discord, and of course, the biggest one is when divorce takes place in the marriage and the couple separates.
Tim Elliot: We are going to be talking about divorce in a future chapter, a future episode, in some detail, but let me ask you how you normally advise clients when it comes to some of the issues that you’ve raised there.
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: One has to look at the issues in the marriage, factors that affect the marriage. Unemployment is one. Major life events in the couple’s life, including death of a parent, or moving countries, moving houses, there are major life events in everybody’s life, and they can affect one’s individual life and the marriage as well. It’s how to look at these life events and help the person address them so they don’t affect their marriage as well.
Ludmila Yamalova: One of the things that we see in our legal practice, and I wonder how someone in your profession would advise or counsel people in terms of marriage since Dubai is such a mixed community and that is one of the most magical things about this part of the world is that so many of us come from so many different places and we’re so intermixed and not just in terms of society, but also families. They are so many mixed families.
So, when you have a family, for example, that let’s say a Muslim or an American family that is of Muslim religion, so they move to the U.A.E. In the U.S., the marriage would be a civil marriage. They could be people of faith, but ultimately in terms of law and the laws that apply to them, they are civilly married. Now they move to the U.A.E. and here if they are Muslim people, let’s say the husband wants to take another wife. He doesn’t want divorce the first wife, but I could see, and we have seen this before, all of a sudden there is a lot of psychological issues that would arise from that, for example, for the wife who did not expect it and that would not necessarily be allowed in a country like the U.S. which is where their marriage was registered.
I’m curious, have you seen those kinds of cases and how do you advise people to deal with them, if you have?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Thank you. That is a very interesting issue, Ludmila. The thing is that people who lived in another country and moved to a new country are not familiar with the rules and the traditions and the culture as well. As I mentioned, we are all affected by life events, and moving countries, whichever country it is, is a major life event, and not being familiar with its rules and regulations and legislation is a major factor in producing anxiety and worries and affecting the relationship.
Ludmila Yamalova: That is one of the things that we just so often wish that perhaps people would come to us a little earlier, before the problem arises, before that sort of an issue comes up. Unfortunately, in particular, I guess perhaps everywhere in the world, but certainly in this part of the world, people think of lawyers and that you go to them when you already have a problem. Since the majority of us here are expats or foreigners, we come from somewhere else, it would be so valuable to so many to have perhaps sought some advice about just the basic rules and laws that apply in this country, including cultural principles and guidelines, and something that they should manage and therefore manage their expectations. But unfortunately, all too often, people come to us when it’s too late. We are legal professionals, but we would love to say, well, perhaps before you decide to divorce, maybe you should go and seek marriage counseling. But sadly, by the time they come to us, it can be too late. I’m just curious, what kind of issues do you see in marriages where you actually manage to resolve or help people and convince them to stay in the marriage versus taking the impulsive way out?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: I think you’re quite right, Ludmila. My dream would be to see people empowered by knowledge prior to the problem happening and seeking advice or help, whether it’s legal, whether it’s marriage counseling, because knowledge is empowerment and helps the person plan and be familiar with possible solutions as well.
Just to give one example, a couple came to see me, not in the U.A.E., but in another country, where the husband had already moved out. There were little children. This call was actually the one referring the children because the children were displaying aggressive behavior at school. I wanted to see the couple. Sometimes parents get quite upset because they think the problem is with the children solely, but the reason why the children were having problems were because the couple was separated, and they were on very bad terms. They did not talk to each other, and the children were really affected. Now, when I actually interviewed the couple together, I realized that mother had a clinical depression for quite some time, was never diagnosed, and of course, it did affect her relationship with her husband and with her children, but by the time I saw them, the father had already moved out. He was in another relationship, and it was too late to remedy anything except to look at how to help the children and help the parents communicate about the children in a friendly way and organize activities and visits in a nice way. A mental health problem is one of the issues, for example.
Ludmila Yamalova: You know I have to share one case study from my own practice. It was perhaps a small success story, but not so much a legal, but perhaps more of in your field. I had a client who came to me seeking counsel on wanting to basically get divorced because he was having issues with his wife ultimately stemming from some of the medical issues or problems that had arisen with their children. It was putting a lot of strain and emotional taxation, as you can imagine, on the family in general, which is understandable. But I have known the client for a very long time and at a personal level as well, so he came to me and sought advice.
“I just can’t stand this anymore. My wife is too edgy. She doesn’t work. I am the breadwinner.” And so now because their son had a disability, a newly-acquired disability as a result of an accident, obviously that changed, a life event that you were talking about, Dr. Samaa, that changed the whole family dynamic because all of a sudden the person, this boy, could no longer get around on his own. Everybody had to adjust, and the family dynamics had to change in order to accommodate this newly-disabled child.
The mother said, “I cannot, I don’t want to drive him to therapy all the time so I want to, for example, twice, three times a week go to the gym and exercise.”
The husband was obviously quite upset. “You know I’m the one working. I’m in the office everyday earning money to support our family, and you are at home. This is one of those things where you cannot even drive our son around to daily therapy sessions.”
Obviously, this was just an example of that. So, he came to me for advice. “What do I do? I am thinking of divorce. What do I do from a legal standpoint?”
But I just said, “Okay, what are the most immediate issues?” The driving was one example, believe it or not. I said, “Listen, can you afford to hire a driver?” “Yes, we can, but it’s a matter of principle.” I said, “I understand, but can you afford to hire a driver?” “Yes, I can.” I said, “Why don’t you try to hire a driver and see?” Perhaps, because it is such a difficult dynamic that is happening in the family, now everybody is sort of depressed, it is an underlying layer of depression, and it is not my area of expertise, but I knew the person from a personal standpoint, so I just knew the family. I just said, “Okay, if you remove this one anxiety in the family relationship, what will happen?” It was more of a conversation.
This is why I thought this discussion would be interesting because sometimes there is this overlap and interplay between legal and psychological issues all too often. That was my advice. It wasn’t legal. It was more as a friend. I’m telling you, if you can afford a driver, get a driver and see what happens. I think a year later he came back, and he said, “Listen, you saved my marriage.”
I’m sure it was a lot more complicated than that, but that’s just an example of how when he came to me, the relationship had not gotten to the point where it was unsalvageable anymore, but in his mind at the time, he just could not cope with it anymore and so he could not see the forest from the trees. If only people could come and seek advice from wherever at the relevant time, perhaps there is an opportunity for more of these amicable resolutions.
Tim Elliot: You know, Ludmila, you used a phrase there that I was going to come back and use on you there, it is not seeing the forest from the trees. It must be that if you’re in Dr. Samaa’s situation where you see no way out, and all you see is the end of your marriage, these things that you have to deal with, it’s very hard to see past and to see that maybe getting a driver in this instance would actually help. And it’s nice to hear that happened. I mean, it always strikes me that if you, Dr. Samaa, have to say to somebody, “I think it’s time to seek legal counsel here”, that’s a sign that there is a very real possibility that this marriage is going to fail. Do you do that? And if you do say, “Look, it is time to seek legal counsel”, at what point, if it is even possible to pinpoint, an actual point, would you do that?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Just commenting first on Ludmila’s point. I was very pleased to hear, Ludmila, your wholistic approach because people are people, and we’re all a bundle of different things. When you are dealing with a person, whether it’s the legal side, you have to apply also what you very nicely applied, which is being perceptive to the person and other factors to be tackled too.
When to seek legal advice, I think if it’s left to, if the couple has come to the stage of really fighting badly about things, they need to know really where they stand, and maybe that will calm things down as well. It doesn’t mean this is the direction it’s going to go into. But it will help them to see some solutions, maybe in an amicable way without going into legal stuff. But I think knowing what you are, what you can and you can’t do, what your rights are, then it is left to you to decide. I still want to have marriage counseling and go that direction, or I have reached the stage where I want to go the other direction. Having choices is important for any individual, and as I mentioned earlier, knowledge is empowering the person to actually make the right choices as well.
Ludmila Yamalova: One of the questions that we ponder and debate quite heatedly in this office because we have had a number of cases, and I’d love to hear your insight on this, Dr. Samaa, about families or marriages where in fact the woman is the breadwinner, and the father is a stay-at-home figure. We’ve had a number of issues or disputes or matters that have come our way in those kinds of dynamics where the father, for example, comes because things are not working out with the mother, or the mother comes, “Listen, my husband stays at home too much and is not contributing.” Because I think generally speaking, around the world we are used to it being the other way around where it is the mother that stays at home and the father is the provider. Then you take that and bring it to this region where culturally perhaps it is perceived to be less acceptable, so we have our own internal debates where still some of our colleagues say, well, no, but he’s a man. He should go and he should work. He should not be asking or to live and expect his wife to support him and the kids. Do you see issues in these kinds of relationships come to your practice? Because we have seen them. Again, maybe the ones we’ve seen are just too far from being salvageable, but have you seen those kinds of case studies in your practice?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Yes, I have. I’ve worked in different countries. I’ve worked in the U.K., Switzerland, and Egypt, and now in the U.A.E. Within the same cultures, there are so many different norms. Within my own culture, for example, the Egyptian culture, different strata of society, there are different norms where it is acceptable that the woman is the breadwinner and the man is not. As long as within the couple, or within that strata, this is acceptable and worked through, so issues that do arise or conflicts that do arise, are actually looked at and solved, rather than just hidden under the carpet and not addressed. I think that is quite important to address. Throughout the last decade, things have changed tremendously as well. You see more men pushing the buggy when you walk on the street, where it was very unacceptable or not very frequently done. Things change over time within the same culture. One has to adapt all the time.
Ludmila Yamalova: So, when we are talking about marriage and counseling and couple’s therapy, how receptive is this region? I use the word region more specifically versus the world, but this region because of its own cultural and historic and traditional background, how receptive is the mindset of the culture of this region to marriage counseling?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Again, there are the different versions of acceptability of it. It depends on the cultural, the educational level of a person, and acceptability. I have seen couples quite conservative actually, accepting marriage counseling, and coming together and listening, when maybe their own parents wouldn’t have done that. It depends on the generation as well as the people involved too. It takes maybe a longer time in some cultures for that to happen, but it is happening. I have seen people accepting it.
Ludmila Yamalova: How do you encourage people to seek counseling without feeding into their existing, perhaps stigma? Oh, we can’t go see a psychiatrist or a family counselor. There is some sort of a negative stigma associated with that. How do you deal with that? How do you encourage someone to penetrate that and not be afraid to see a professional?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: I think what’s important to highlight is the duty of psychiatrists and counselors not to be judgmental. We are here to listen, to have the person make their own decisions. It’s not about pointing at the person and saying you are doing it right or wrong. It is about making them actually come up with all the different options and scenarios that will help their problem, and then they can make their own decisions themselves. People feel maybe more threatened when they feel I’m going to see a psychiatrist who is going to have an opinion, and that is not what psychiatry is about at all, or the counselors. It is actually helping the person make their own decision.
Ludmila Yamalova: How do you educate people that there is a different side to seeking help, other than stigma? Do you provide or do any kind of trainings or educational seminars that would be beneficial for people to be on the lookout for in the future?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: I think we do. I do, for example, lots of parenting sessions and psychoeducation because that highlights to the person or to the couple different ways of doing things. I think psychoeducation is really key in people being well educated about the options to choose, decisions to make, and then they can pinpoint themselves the things that they think they could do better.
Ludmila Yamalova: One of the other case studies I had – I probably shouldn’t use the term case study – but a client. It was actually a woman that ended up just knocking on the door and coming to our office without making an appointment. She was a woman from the Gulf. She was in distress. She was crying. She said she really wanted to talk to me. The reason she was crying and she wanted to talk to me was because she had just found out that her husband was cheating. They were a couple from the Gulf. She had just found out that her husband was cheating, and she was obviously very upset. The reason she wanted to see me was because she said she was driving and she just did not know what to do, but she remembered she had heard my voice on Dubai Eye. She called the radio and said, I know there is this lawyer, Ludmila. That’s all. She didn’t even have my full name. She blabbered some kind of version of my name and they told her my phone number. She looked us up and she just showed up at the door. It was kind of a coincidence in a way, but she said, I was driving. I was distressed. I did not know who to turn to. I’m very upset. I had nobody else to call, nobody else to consult because for her own perhaps cultural framework, there was not really much of a support network for her to tap into, so she came to a stranger, me. They were a Muslim couple. She was very upset. She just wanted to divorce. She said, “I just want a divorce.” I said, “That’s your personal choice”.
But from a legal standpoint, if you get divorced because of the age of the children, the husband will be the legal guardian and he ultimately can have the children and even have the physical custody of the children in their case, or because the kids were different ages, the kids would be separated. She wasn’t from this country, so I said, you know you could leave to your country because you don’t have a job here. Here you are. You have divorced, but you don’t really have your children or you don’t have them all together as you wish, and you cannot stay in this country because you don’t work here and so you would have to go back to your parent’s house in a different country. Basically, legally speaking, that’s your roadmap if you were to seek divorce.
I said my advice is just to see if you can resolve this amicably and even if you decide to divorce, that you do it, because she just wanted to go with her guns blazing, understandably because she had just found out and she was very emotional about it. She was very upset, and she just wanted to fight. I said, listen, my advice is you just agree, come up with an amicable roadmap so that even if you do decide to divorce, that you have an agreement between you for you to take the children and then have them. Ultimately, that’s what she wanted, just the children to be by her side. I said it’s so much better to either, in your circumstances, perhaps stay married and just come up with some sort of an arrangement from a legal standpoint if you want to have the children, or if you do divorce, do so amicably without escalating things because in the end you can really lose the children. Again, that is from a legal standpoint.
Have you seen cases like that and how do you counsel them?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Ludmila, I really like your word of a roadmap because I think it is so important to have a roadmap and to have the choice and to make an informed decision based on all the different roadmaps one can have and choose the one that is in the best interests of the person and the best interests of the children. It’s a really nice example of an informed choice being given.
The other thing I wanted to comment on is about stigma, coming back to stigma. We need to remember that there is also stigma in society. It is sometimes more difficult to actually disclose things to relatives or members of the family because you worry about that stigma. Whereas if you go, for example, to a specialist, you now that it’s 100% confidentiality with the person, you are going to get advice that is not biased, and I think that’s why when you said about this lady talking to a stranger, which was you, it probably helped her a great deal talking to somebody who she knew that was not going to a decision or be influenced by other factors related to the family, and she is not going to be stigmatized. That probably helped her a great deal in actually being able to be open minded to your suggestions as well. Stigma can both ways, with the family, or thinking that you get stigmatized by going to a psychiatrist.
Ludmila Yamalova: I am not sure if you have heard of a fairly new law that was introduced in Dubai in particular. It’s called the Domestic Abuse Law. The law is only about two years old. I’m not quite sure if a lot of people are cognizant or aware of it, but as far as we’re concerned, it is a huge step forward and it’s just a fundamental step in the right direction in terms of allowing people that are still married or still part of the family to now have a legal backbone to rely on to address their issues perhaps with the authorities and not so much the lawyers or psychiatrists, but with the authorities who could perhaps step up and protect them. Until this law was introduced, we were not aware of anything similar to that, and yet, we’ve had so many cases in our practice where we’ve had women who come and say, we get beaten by our husbands and we want to get divorced, for example. We go to the police and the police tell us, well, he is your husband. Now, there is a law that makes that illegal and then also provides protection for these people while they’re still married, while the family is still intact. Or we’ve had cases where, often it’s women, sadly, that come and say, well, my husband doesn’t give us money or bullies me mentally. Again, this is mental bullying or financial perhaps deprivation. Is that considered abuse? I have to tell you, this new law clearly includes all that as wrongdoing or as a wrongful act. In other words, under the Domestic Abuse Law, it is illegal and punishable for relatives, and relatives to the fourth degree, to basically abuse each other, and that includes specifically mental abuse and financial abuse.
Now, I don’t know if you’ve seen anything in your practice where people are not aware of it, and I understand that there is a huge gap in perhaps the continuum of time that has to take place between the time that the law is introduced and that people are aware of it and that it’s actually being applied and implemented. But we have already relied on that law, at least provided advice to others on the basis of that law, and I would hope that as people become more aware of it, that they can now rely on it, not just by going to a stranger and saying, I’m being beaten up or abused, but actually going to the authorities and claiming, hey, listen, this is against the law. I want you to enforce the law. I want you to protect me. I don’t know if you know about this law or if you’ve seen perhaps, hopefully, a shift in the right direction because I think part of the mental health issues that we’ve seen in our legal practice is that people think: Well, the law does not protect me. The authorities don’t protect me. I don’t have anywhere to turn to. The idea is, in fact, the law does protect them, and the law has continued to move in the right direction and progressed. I wonder if you see that in your practice. Do you see that being applied or implemented? Do you see the paradigm shift in people’s mental development, mental health, and education?
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: It’s a great step, having a legal framework for domestic abuse in the U.A.E., and I think that’s really the first step. I’m very pleased to hear that this new legislation is taking place. I think it is important. I don’t think that, to my knowledge, that people are aware of it. I mean, I know I’m in a law office here. I get updated with things from the office, but I don’t think that in the general public that this is the case. That is why I really welcome educating people and, as I mentioned, knowledge is power, to know that this exists. Coming to domestic violence, it is a very sensitive issue. We did talk a little bit about stigma, and I think there is stigma associated with it, in lots of other cultures as well as countries, including: It is the fault of the woman. She is bringing it upon herself. Women might feel guilty that there is something inside them that actually leads to this, and there is a feeling of shame and guilt and not being able to disclose it to family members and even talk about it. I think we need to have the channels where a woman who is beaten up is able to talk to somebody, and I’m talking about here multiple disciplines, trained social workers who are there to help, as well as psychiatrists, counselors, to help this group of women to address the issue. But I think the legislation is definitely a huge step forward to actually acknowledge that this is happening.
Tim Elliot: Ludmila, can I ask you a question about legislation? That is one step forward there that you have both brought up, but there have also been amendments to the laws regarding marriage through the Personal Status Law I’m talking about in particular. So, for matters related to marriage, all expatriates can now choose the law of the country where the marriage was registered. I think that’s a point really worth reiterating, isn’t it?
Ludmila Yamalova: Absolutely, and that goes back to my earlier point that we are such a colorful cocktail of culture, nationalities, religions, traditions, passports, and backgrounds. We see it so much. Perhaps to some it’s unexpected, but as a law office, you actually do see a lot of interplay stemming just from that because we do a lot of family law matters here. So, when you have a couple that comes in, the husband has two different nationalities, the wife has either completely two other different nationalities, or one of the same and another one of a different country, and the children have yet another set of nationalities. For example, you have a wife who is a Belgian and Ethiopian, and a husband who is German and British. These are more or less real examples, and the children, American and, let’s see, British. In the event of (1) marriage or (2) divorce or (3) custody, what law applies? We have got like six different countries, and there are six different laws that may apply, and on top of that, now they are living yet in another country which is a seventh set of laws that may potentially apply. There have been a lot of disputes arising just out of that, which choice of law, what law do we apply? For example, in a divorce, we can talk about it more in our next segment on divorces, but what law do you apply?
Until recently, the law was just the law of the husband, for whatever reason. Now there is a whole new set of amendments and new laws, and we are very excited about this. The Official Gazette was published, and we received a copy on November 30th and some of these laws were actually made effective at the time they were written back in September. So, some of these laws actually, legally speaking, have been in existence for a few months now. One of the changes in the law is the personal status law. In relevant terms now, the law clearly provides that for purposes of marriage it is the law of the state where the marriage was registered that applies to the marriage and similarly for divorce. So, what does that mean? In particular, I know personally and professionally so many couples who, for convenience reasons, they go, for example, to get married in Sri Lanka because it’s close by or is Seychelles, because it is close by and it is convenient. Now they have a marriage certificate that was registered in Sri Lanka. What law applies? Let’s say the couple has nothing to do with Sri Lanka. They went there on holiday and got married and got a marriage certificate. The law is interesting. I think it is a massive step forward since now it makes it very clear and brings in neutrality in terms of which law applies. It is the law of the marriage. It is no longer the law of the man that applies, which is great because it gives us clarity, but on the other hand, if the marriage was registered in a country like Sri Lanka, and the couple actually has nothing to do with Sri Lanka, do they know that? Because if they are here and registered under the Sri Lanka marriage certificate, in the event of any issues it will be the law of Sri Lanka that would have to apply to them. This is one of the reasons why we wanted to do this podcast and do it now is to raise that awareness that all those out there who have a marriage certificate perhaps from a country where they got married just for pure convenience perhaps, or for the exotic element, it’s important to know that in any kind of personal status matters, now it will be the law of where the marriage is registered that will apply. Therefore, for all of those couples who have a marriage certificate from a country where perhaps whose laws they don’t want to apply, then what they need to do is they need to take that marriage certificate to their own country, wherever that country might be, and ratify it there, basically just kind of attest, and then when they come back into the U.A.E. they can use that marriage certificate from their home country to register their relationship and their residency here.
That is one law that has been introduced that we deem, as legal professionals, as a massive step forward. Interestingly enough, there is another element to that because the law is so specific about which law applies, so if we take the example of an American couple that is Muslim. Before the law change, the default law that would apply would be Sharia, let’s say if there is a divorce. Now as per this law, at least as per the language of the law, the law that would apply is the law of their nationality or wherever their marriage took place, which in that case would be the U.S. law. Not a suggestion, but the implication of this law is that now even Muslim couples, as long as they’re non nationals, will be able to choose the law which they want to apply to their personal status matters and with marriages and divorces, it is the law where the marriage was registered, which was not the case before. Before the default law would be Sharia, and there was no option or choice.
Now, how this law is going to be applied and enforced remains to be seen, but the language in the law is pretty clear. It now gives the option to, let’s say Muslim couples that come from other countries, choose their own laws. That is one example of legislation.
The other one, going back to the early point about the mental health and the stigma, there was a law in the U.A.E., and in fact, many did not know about this, that was a law that ultimately provided that any kind of physical assault, including murder, that were conducted in the name of family honor and crimes that are referred to as honor killings, were considered to be done under sort of mitigating circumstances, i.e., protecting the family honor, and therefore, they were not punishable in the same way any other crime like that would be punishable under different circumstances. That law in particular was referred to as honor killing, and many people living in the U.A.E., including myself I have to admit, we did not know that there was basically a law protecting in a way honor crimes conducted in the name of family honor. Now, that has been cancelled out altogether. So now, any kind of killings or any assault that is perpetrated in the name of protecting family honor is now treated as any other crime. If it is a killing, it will no longer be an honor killing. It is murder. It would be premeditated murder and would penalize accordingly and any other physical assault conducted again in the name of family honor would be treated as any other crime and physical offense and punishable equally as any other felony.
Again, I consider from a legal standpoint a massive positive development, though in practical terms I think many of us did not know about the previous law and was not perhaps exercised or used as much. But that is another example of legislation which is I think should be applauded.
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Ludmila, I think, sitting here in your law firm, it’s like being a bakery where everything is coming hot out of the oven. I’m sure lots of people are really not aware of many of the things that you’ve just mentioned in your talk which are really quite important to know. My thinking is that it’s human nature that we look for things when we need it. We look and try to find out more about legislation when we are in a position of getting a divorce or on the verge of wanting a divorce. Whereas I think it is important that this information actually does reach happily married couples before they get into this, so they think, if they are living, for example, in the U.A.E., of the marriage certificate and which one to register with. Thinking ahead is really key in this, rather than trying to find a solution when things are on the verge of breaking down anyway.
Ludmila Yamalova: Dr. Samaa, you are absolutely correct. This is also perhaps the main reason why we wanted to do this podcast now because of all of these recently released amendments to the laws. We deem it obviously as very important, but also in a way – not to sound corny – but as our duty as legal professionals to raise awareness and to educate the public. We have seen that knowledge is power of and much can be resolved amicably and efficiently if only people had the knowledge at the relevant time. That is why we are keen to continue perhaps to do more of these sessions with you and in this forum or any other forum to help raise awareness, educate, share war notes and stories with that objective in mind. There are a lot of questions because in law it is one thing to publish something in black and white, but it’s another thing to figure out what that really means in real life and practice because there are so many nuances to it any one of these cases that we’ve discussed. There are so many different angles. How will the courts and other authorities actually implement or apply these laws? This is yet to be seen, but it is absolutely a step in the right direction. As things progress and evolve, I would love for us to continue to have this collaboration so that we can continue to educate and share more “hot off the press” stories of how these new laws are now actually being applied.
Tim Elliot: There’s so much more to discuss on the topic of marriage, and we’ll come back to some of the things that we didn’t get to today, but that’s chapter 1 of a special Lawgical series discussing the legal and psychological aspects of marriage in general here in the U.A.E. Our special guest on this series of podcasts was Dr. Samaa Al Abd, a Child and Adolescent Consultant Psychiatrist. Dr. Samaa has been practicing medicine in the U.K. since 1985 and in Dubai since 2015. She practices at Keith Nicoll Medical Centre here in Dubai and at the Cromwell Hospital in London. Dr. Al Abd is a Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK. Dr. Samaa, thank you so much for your time.
Dr. Samaa Al Abd: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Tim Elliot: Providing the incisive legal commentary, as ever, was Ludmila Yamalova, the Managing Partner at HPL Yamalova & Plewka, here in Dubai in JLT. Ludmila, as always, many thanks for your time.
Ludmila Yamalova: Always a pleasure. Thank you so much, Dr. Samaa for being here and for contributing, and Tim, for your way of bringing us into this interesting, insightful hopefully, and fluid discussion.
Tim Elliot: If you have a legal question to be answered in a future episode of Lawgical, or if you’d like a consultation with a qualified U.A.E. experienced legal professional, you can now WhatsApp us, 00971 52 525 1611, or you can just head to LYLawyers.com and click Contact.
